Twenty men are engaged in fiery debate on a sidewalk near Nairobi's Westgate mall, where terrorists stormed the shopping center and killed at least 67 people.
A man at the center gestures emphatically as some listen and nod. Others shake their heads.
Here and at coffee shops and barbershops and social spots the debate is much the same: Should Kenya withdraw its troops from Somalia after terrorists stormed the mall?
The terrorists who attacked the mall on Saturday claimed to be members of Somalia-based Al-Shabaab and barked out their resentment of Kenyan troops in their country.
"They said, 'We are the Al-Shabaab, we are here to kill you for killing our women in Somalia,'" said Jane Kamau, who hid in a box when attackers opened fire at the mall.
Kenya entered a high-stakes gamble two years ago when it sent troops to neighboring Somalia to flush out the Islamist militants it accused of kidnapping and killing foreigners in the coastal area.
The abductions affected Kenya's once-bustling tourism industry, a major hit to the nation's revenue.
Al-Shabaab vowed to attack Kenya until it withdrew its troops. Since then, grenades have landed at bus stops, churches, mosques and bars, killing dozens. Militants have regularly taken to social media to brag about their attacks and to threaten more.
'We need to protect our borders'
John Mutua, part of the sidewalk debate, said keeping troops in Somalia is not the best option.
"We need to get them out," said the 34-year-old businessman. "They'll keep killing us, and we'll continue killing them --- it will never end. We should all stop fighting, start afresh."
Next to him, bank teller John Kamau, 28, shakes his head vehemently.
"That's nonsense, it's not that easy," he said. "We're already in too deep. We will be considered cowards if we get out. They (Al-Shabaab) started it by killing and kidnapping people in our own land."
Mutua waves him off. He tries to draw in a Kenyan soldier standing guard near the cordoned-off area near the mall.
"Do you guys like being in Somalia?" Mutua asks.
The soldier glares at him and turns the other way, clutching a long rifle.
At a barber and hair-stylist shop about 20 miles from the mall, a similar debate is under way.
Jane Njeri sits under a buzzing hair dryer. She pops her head out long enough to give her two cents, before tucking her head back.
"The reason the troops invaded is because our borders were porous to begin with," she said. "We need to fix our security. We need to protect our borders. Those troops fighting in Somalia, we need to bring them home to help with those efforts. If we fix our security, we don't have to fear terrorists."
Philex Ambani, 23, said sending the troops there was not a good idea to begin with. But they should stay, he said.
"If they want our soldiers to get out, they need to stop killing us," he said. "It's that simple. It wasn't worth it to go there over a bunch of tourists, but we are already there. We can't give up now. "
The Westgate mall standoff ended Tuesday, according to government officials. It was the worst terror attack in the nation since al Qaeda blew up the U.S. Embassy in 1998, leaving more than 200 dead.
Kenya's president steadfast
Kenya is East Africa's biggest economy and a crucial trade route into the rest of the continent. It is also a major U.S. ally in the war against Islamist militants in the region.
It provides an important buffer of stability in a region that includes the fledgling Somali government and the politically tense Sudans.