MADISON, Wis. -- A shootout over concealed guns is brewing at the state Capitol. News 3’s Prema Chandrathil reported on why there's an argument over keeping the names secret of those who get concealed carry permits.

News 3 reported capitol insiders say the concealed carry bill will likely be passed, and could have enough votes to override a promised veto by Gov. Jim Doyle.

The bill keeps permit holders secret, but the Wisconsin Freedom of Information Council says the public should know

Grampa's Gun Shop owner Larry Gleasman says making permit information public is criminal in more ways than one.

“Why give them that information? Why tell Sally has a gun, Mary doesn’t? Which one am I going to rob? Well, I'm going to rob Mary," said Gleasman.

The bill that’s on the capitol steps would require residents to do two things to get a permit:

Take a 26-hour safety course

Have a background check

The bill's co-sponsor, Rep. Scott Gunderson of the Waterford District, says keeping those permit ID's private is a protection measure.

“It’s very clear that the criminal element does not know when you pass one of these laws who is or is not carrying that they hang the way they do criminal activities," said Gunderson.

Gunderson said violent crimes have gone down in states with similar bills. But critics that take no position on the bill itself say finding out if that is true or not is the problem with keeping permit names a secret.

"Well, if you can’t find out as a member of public or press whether someone has a permit or not, you can’t gauge whether this is contributing to crime or whether its helping curb it," said Bill Lueders, president of the Wisconsin Freedom of Information Council.

Lueders said the information should be treated just like holding a hunting license, which is totally open to the public.

But Gleasman sees things through the barrel differently. “If I don’t have a gun, why would I just assume nobody knew it?" he said.

Police would be denied access to the information. The only way officers would be able to find out if you're a permit holder is if they have your name and then do a search. They can’t just pull up a master list.

News 3 reported that conceal and carry laws exist in roughly 44 states. Wisconsin, Illinois, Nebraska and Kansas do not have a law.

The last time carry and conceal legislation came through the capitol it was vetoed by Gov. Doyle. The state Senate overrode the veto. But the override fell one vote short in the assembly.

The new bill will be discussed more in a joint hearing next week. A vote is expected before the end of November.